The power of hard work & respect
Be prepared to be blown away by her authentic, genuine, and inspiring personality. Charlene Bower is truly a one-of-a-kind, awe-inspiring woman. She gets blunt when encouraging women to listen more, support one another, and how to level up on all levels in their life.
We cover everything from how to find your people, how to mentor, take a compliment and celebrate your win regardless of how big or small.
Charlene grew up in an off-roading family, enjoying annual trips to Dumont Dunes, the Rubicon, and other iconic off-road destinations. Her first job was changing dirt bike tires at a motorcycle shop in Northern California. She worked in upper-retail management at multi-line Powersports dealerships for 11 years and in magazine media for four years before founding Bower Motorsports Media in 2009.
“Getting into the ‘man's world’ is a little bit interesting.”
She built a media empire using trending media and communication platforms supplying the backdrop for some of the most successful racers, events, and companies in the 4x4 market. In 2016 Charlene turned her focus to championing women offroad. In 2016, Charlene hosted the 1st annual Ladies Co-Driver Challenge, the backdrop for the Internationally recognized educational group Ladies Offroad Network.
“We created this environment for women who want to be in the off-road space. So if they have a dirt bike, they have a Jeep, they have a Toyota 4runner. They have anything, like it doesn't matter. Anything in- in the dirt, right?”
In six years, she has had the opportunity to teach, impact and empower thousands of ladies while traveling across the US and Canada, plus hosting events in the western states.
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Melissa: Welcome to the kindling project podcast! Our guest today is Charlene Bower. She's the founder of Bower Motor Sports Media and the Ladies Offroad Network. She has 27 years of experience in the offroad industry. She grew up in an offroad family. Her first job was changing dirt tires in Northern California.
And she has built a media empire using trending media and communication platforms. And she supplied the backdrop for some of the most successful racers events and companies in the four by four market. We're super excited to have this badass lady with us today. Welcome Charlene Bauer.
Charlene: Yay! Thank you girls so much for having me, Amy and Melissa! I'm super excited to be a part of The Kindling Project and- and your launching of it! I'm so proud of you ladies for making something like this happen for everybody that's out there. So thank you.
Melissa: Yeah! I think we have that in common. All three of us, that we're doing cool things for the ladies.
Charlene: Lots of cool things for the ladies.
Melissa: Yeah!
So Charlene, I mean, there- you're just a, one of a kind, I don't even know if there's anyone else like you, but tell us how you got into this like, "man's space" and how you're bringing other girls along, how you're taking 'em on the Rubicon trail. Tell us about it!
Charlene: Getting into the "man's world" is a little bit interesting.
So yes, you're correct. I totally grew up in an off-road family. I was very lucky in that way. My dad and mom were always super encouraging. First in Jeeps, and then our legs got too long. So my brother and I got kicked out onto dirt bikes. So we learned how to ride dirt bikes and quads. And then, you know, later on we got back into full drives and Jeeps again, but my very first job outta high school was working at a motorcycle shop.
And so I'm like, "I wanna work in a motorcycle shop! That'd be so cool!" So I go down and I get a job and, uh, just in typical hazing-type situation, the very first day, what you gotta do is change tires. So. I was no different and they sent me back. They're like, "you gotta change tires." I'm like, "okay." So I went back to the back to change the first couple sets of motorcycle tires.
And I came out with like this huge grin. I'm like, "oh my gosh, this is so cool! You guys have a machine that helps you do it! Like, my dad makes me do it on the grass in the front yard, on my hands and knees!" They're like, "oh no, we're never getting rid of her."
Amy: They knew, right then and there.
Melissa: They thought they had you at tire changing!
Charlene: So it took about four to five years later, before I even realized/ knew/understood. They told me that I was the first girl they had ever hired at that shop.
Melissa: Wow.
And so it was kind of a big deal, and you know, the way that the manager got around it was," well. We're gonna treat her just like everybody else. And if she doesn't make it, she doesn't make it. If she does. She does." So that was the story behind that. I stayed in the motorcycle industry for about 10 years in upper retail management, worked in that industry for a long time. I love it. Two wheels is truly my passion at the end of the day. That's where my fun is.
And learned, you know, my very first job outta college was actually at the largest motorcycle shop in the world and I was the parts manager there. And so here I am 22, 23 years old. And I have like 20 plus employees working for me all the way from 18 to 65, 90% guys. And like two or three girls in there.
Amy: Yeah, yeah.
Melissa: Wow.
Charlene: I really had to put my best foot forward as we always do. But in a way that said, "listen, I'm asking you to do something, but it's not something that I wouldn't do myself."
Amy: Mm-hmm
Charlene: I think that attitude really got me the respect that I needed as fast as I could from the crew that was working from me that, you know, some of 'em, I mean, they've been working in the motorcycle industry for 30 plus years.
Like they knew more than I did. Never gonna deny that. I learned a lot from them. They took the management scene from me and we all made it work. So that was exciting. Then I left the motorcycle industry and I got into the media industry and went to work for two magazines- side by side action magazine and sand addiction magazine. That got me into the very beginning of the side by side market.
So this was like back when the rhino 450 was badass. And if you're anywhere in the offroad market, you're like, "oh my gosh, that thing was such a pig." Like, you know exactly what I'm talking about! So I was at the beginning of that market. Um, there's. Four or five people that were in the core value of the beginnings of the side by sides.
And I was lucky enough to be one of those people to really see how that initiated, how it went forward. And there wasn't a lot of women at the time in that zone. The guys weren't taking the women into account as they were building the machines. It's now, today, very much a conversation with, uh, engineers.
What 10, 15 years later, what do women want? How can we make these machines better for women? So that was- it's kind of an interesting phase, how I've been able to go through the whole thing and see where we are today.
Melissa: Can you back up just a little bit and tell people what the side by side is?
Amy: That's what I was gonna ask. Like what is side by side, please help us!
Charlene: Yeah. So a side by side, a UTV, they're Rhinos. They're Can- Ams, they're Polaris-
Amy: Can-Am, I know that.
Charlene: Razors,
Melissa: Right. So four wheels instead of two?
Charlene: Four wheels, instead of two, they got a roll cage. You sit next to each other, you put seat belts on.
Melissa: Like the rock crawler that we worked on together for that TV show.
Charlene: Yeah! But more of a caged animal and it's alot, but for two people and it's caged.
Amy: Picture: you're- you're talking to two women that know a lot, but know really nothing of your industry. And Melissa knows because her husband do this recreationally. He goes to Jeep Jamboree but he's not like at the crazy, you know, rock crawling events that Charlene's at.
So, Charlene, if you- do you mind, if we just back up just a couple more, because you- you said a couple things that I just really wanna ask you about if that's okay.
Charlene: Yeah.
Amy: First of all, I just want you to know how much I admire you. Just as a quick side note, I have a twin brother and he is a motorcycle instructor.
He had a motorcycle instructing school in Texas for years, and taught like high-level instructions. And now my 16 year old, he started working at a motorcycle shop last year and he just bought his first bike just about a month ago. So, although I don't know much, I really respect the work that you do. And I- I can only imagine you being a 22 year old manager with this staff.
The one word that keeps coming to mind is "respect." It really sounds like you respected yourself because you really believed in what you're doing. You have to, when you're in this kind of industry, that is so out of your purview as- as a young woman of- of 22, even going into it a 16 year old, you know, going and changing the tire and things like that.
Charlene: Yeah!
Amy: I'm really impressed. It sounds like your parents really supported and- and gave you a lot of encouragement.
Charlene: Yeah. I think the focus to that word with "respect" is also, I respected the people around me. I would always listen.
Amy: Mm-hmm.
Charlene: That's a piece of advice that I give women all the time is if you wanna be respected, if you want to be a part of something, if you wanna be a part of something bigger, listen, my friends.
Amy: Mm-hmm
Charlene: Listen. You know, sometimes unfortunately women feel like, "well, we need to talk more because we need to prove ourselves." Talk when it's right. When you have all the data and you have all the facts and you can really like, blow 'em outta the water. But in the meantime, listen. And listen a lot. And take all the little caveat of what these men are trying to give you and what they're trying to teach you, because they want to teach you and they want to help you,
Amy: mm-hmm
Charlene: Believe it or not. It's just a matter of sometimes A- they don't know how, and B- we're so busy talking, that we forget to listen and see that they really are truly trying to help. So that honestly is one of the best things that I've ever done is just sat back and listened. And-
Amy: mm-hmm.
Charlene: I've learned so much from so many people because I do that.
And then when it's time to talk, it's time to be intelligent.
Amy: Mm-hmm
Charlene: And now, you know, I come out with the bat swinging and I'm like, "well, I know this, and this, and this, and this, and this." Well, I didn't know that because I figured it out. I know that because I listened and other people were able to help me out and be successful.
Melissa: That's really great advice for any gender or any field, you know, spend some time learning and listening. I love it.
Charlene: We all wanna be the expert. We all wanna have our opinions heard. I love to have my opinion heard!
Melissa: Mm-hmm
Charlene: Right! But, I also need my opinion to either be right, or I need to be honest of, "this is my opinion. I'm not sure it's perfect for this situation, but here's the data behind it of why I feel it is."
Amy: So I'm curious, at what point, if you could look back retrospectively, when did you come to that understanding or that conclusion? Because there is something to be said for surrounding yourself with another gender, with- with men, because there's things that as women, we can really glean from them and it's like, "wow, there is something to be said for listening," or- I'm curious at what point in your career, you start to realize, "this is something that I'm hardwiring and I'm gonna start really practicing"
Charlene: Consciously, it was when I started Bower Media. Because that's when people were really starting to pull me under their wing.
Amy: Mm-hmm
Charlene: And I recognized it and I appreciated it and I understood it. Uh, but you're also outta your twenties, like in your twenties, you think, you know everything and you know, gung ho, right?
And then all of a sudden you're in your thirties and you're like, "oh, I need nothing. But I thought I did."
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: You know, I learned a lot through that phase, don't get me wrong, like, I listened. I understood that I needed to, but to consciously, Amy, put myself in a position. I would say it was after I started Bower media in early thirties.
And that's when I started also having this voice that I have right now telling other ladies, "Hey, just listen for a second." You know, some people hate my advice. I'm like "shush! And listen," because there's so much out there that can be learned. But again, the people that are listening to your podcast right now, they're already pros at that because they're listening here.
They're trying to get advice. They're trying to do great things. And, um, so they're already a step ahead, which is exciting.
Amy: Yay!
Melissa: I mean, I have to say I have a different kind of business. I have a design agency. Amy has her own business. She's a therapist, but I think, like, all three of us can agree- there's something really humbling about starting your own business. I mean, no matter how much you learned before you started your own business, you just don't know anything until you're the one in charge, you know?Like, you're the one that has to take all the hits. You're the one that has to not get paid or not sleep. It is a humbling experience, right?
Charlene: It is, it's such a horrible idea.
Amy: I know.
Melissa: Why do we keep doing it girls? Why!
Amy: Part of it is that overachieving, you know, we just- I never realized that I was an overachiever until I started a doctoral program for my PhD. I'm like, "when did I become such an overachiever?" But it's just always been there. I think, you know, for some of us.
And it's just like, gosh, then we gotta be able to give ourselves some grace and some space too.
Charlene: Yeah. You gotta give yourself grace. Some of the guys that I worked with quite a bit, we started pirate four by four TV live. It was a TV show and I was in the background doing all the work for it and everything. And they'd always watch me just get fully ramped up, like spun up, ramped up, "It's gotta be like this! It's gotta be like this!" right. *gibberish mimicking* And he's just like casual, you know, whiskey drinker. "It'll be fine" attitude. Yeah. We made the perfect pair, but he taught me one of the best lessons that I today even tell myself when I get into these moments, because we all get into these moments, is, "is it good enough? Is it good enough?"
Melissa: Is it ever good enough?
Charlene: Yeah. Right? But he would say that, you know, because, quote, unquote "we're perfectionists, but are we?" And so he would say that- "is it good enough? Is somebody gonna be able to tell the difference between A and B? Are you at that point where you've read this thing five times, Charlene you've edited it five times, send it be done with it!"
Like, "you did it! You did a good job. You know you did a good job. It's good enough. Get it gone. Get on to the next project so you can do a good job on the next project." Today, you know his voice every once in a while, when I'm spinning on something, I'm like, "I'm so over this!" I'm like, "is it good enough?" Like, "okay, one more thing and then it is good enough and it's gotta go."
Amy: That was profound advice. I mean, it's so true. And I think the more we get into the minutia of things in life, we have to say, "it is enough for this day. For this time. It is enough and I'm going to send it. I'm going to do it. I'm gonna sign it off and just move forward because it just has to be, or else nothing will get done." Right?
Charlene: Exactly.
Melissa: I mean that perfectionism, it- I know in my life, especially the kind of industry I'm in and it's- it kind of overlaps with your industry, you know, anything creative or artistic or visual. It's really never done. It's done when you say it's done, but there's always an improvement. And sometimes I look at a logo I designed or a vehicle wrap or a- you know, a digital piece, like a website or interactive. It could be 10 years old. I can see all the things that could make it better. Like it could really always be better. You just have to take it to the next project. The next one will be an inch better. Otherwise you'd paralyzed and you can't move forward. Right. And you can't progress.
Charlene: Yeah. It's a big deal. And I'm proud that I hold myself accountable to a high standard.
Melissa: Mm-hmm
Charlene: A lot of people watch that about me. Like that's why my businesses have been successful in what we do, is that I do hold myself accountable to a very high standard, but I also give myself the grace.
I use that word quite a bit, Amy, to allow myself the opportunity to say, "you know what? This is good enough. We're on task. We're on point. Everybody's happy. Everybody's good. Let's carry on and let's, you know, keep the train rolling. We can't stop at the station for much longer.""
Amy: "The train is still moving. We gotta just keep going."
Melissa: And in terms of what Amy and I are doing, where we're trying to create space for women to work on their kindling projects, I'm sure that's sort of paralysis around perfectionism or analyzing too much, overthinking. I think that probably does hold people back.
Charlene: And then es- especially if you are working on a project and you know, at what point do you feel like you can have somebody else edit it or look at it? And that's gonna start telling you where you're at within your heart of, how you feel about yourself. Are there certain levels where it's like, "okay, once I get this website to this level, then I'll have somebody go through and edit it and look at it, because I don't wanna hear about it and- like, yeah, of course I already have all this stuff on the list. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know." But then once you get to the point where, "okay, I want you to edit this. I want you to do it." That's a whole other level, right, of taking the criticism and taking the steps. People send me stuff all the time. They're like, "Hey, will you look at this project?" Or, "will you look at this?" Or, "will you look at that?"
And I'm like, "yes, but, I want you to understand when I send something back, even if it's perfect, I'm gonna tell you how you can up-level it." So I might not find anything, you know, in there I'm like, "Hey, this is rad. This is great." You need to read that line first.
Melissa: Right.
Charlene: Then say, "okay, here's how you could up level it."
That's what we should be doing to each other all the time is,
Melissa: mm-hmm. mm-hmm ,
Charlene: "You're perfect right where you are right now in your space, you're doing a great job. You're doing great things. But hey, have you ever thought about this?" Like, "here's a great way to up-level yourself." Like, "here's a great way to maybe think about this just a little bit differently to where you can come back around and be in a better space."
Melissa: That's like a really good friend. I mean, supporting other people and helping them grow is that takes courage, because there are those people that, you know, they're not on your team or they really don't wanna see you succeed. Or if you grow, maybe they won't grow. I'm all about a community, we're all helping each other up-level.
Charlene: Yeah. So that's where Ladies Off-road Network comes into play really well. We created this environment for women who want to be in the off-road space. So if they have a dirt bike, they have a Jeep, they have a Toyota 4runner. They have anything, like it doesn't matter. Anything in- in the dirt, right? Anything off-road, dirt-oriented. Us as women, we have this element where we wanna have education before we go do something more than likely.
Melissa: Mostly right?
Charlene: Every once in a while, we'll jump off a cliff without knowing what's on the other side, but , for the most part, like, we wanna have some kinda knowledge based, some kind of information. And so that's what Ladies Off-road Network is a hundred percent built around, is education, adventure, but in a safe environment.
And that safe environment that we've created has added something else to it. Which, when I started Ladies Off-road Network, I wanted it, but I couldn't guarantee it. And that's a group of women that come together and ultimately support each other. And we have this network of women all over the country that literally have each other's backs, support each other, say, "you got this!" You know, we have our backend chat and we have our more visible chat out on the Facebook/ instagram- land. They're always supporting each other when we're in a- like on the Rubicon this last weekend. And we just took eight ladies through the Rubicon trail. It's a level 10 trail. Every single one has put six months to a year of effort into their vehicles, into upgrading them into coming and doing trailer rides with me, to where they're up-leveling their own skillset, which both of those up-level, your confidence. Right?
Melissa: Right.
Charlene: And they just walk themselves right through it. But they did it as a team. Like, they each supported each other in the entire space and- and excitingly, you know, said, "heck yeah! You got this!" Or, "One caught one, a little off balance."
You're like, "no, no, no, no, no, you got this. Just keep going." You know, "who cares about that rock back there? There's another one coming up here!"
Melissa: I'm so proud of you. This is just such an inspiration. Even if you're not in the offroad space, just hearing about these women taking on this big of a challenge and having each other's backs.
I want this for all of us.
Amy: I know I wanna be in the audience, or just on the side, just cheering these women on because it's so inspiring. Charlene, how did you come to this Ladies Off-road? Did you realize there's this pretty significant gap of having this space for ladies?
Charlene: So I'll back up just a second- so I started Bower media in two-thousand eight. So in two-thousand sixteen, eight years later. I am burnt out. I hate my job. I'm over it. I'm done chasing racers around and trying to make 'em look cool. Right? Like, yeah. So I was super burnt out. I was super over it, you know? And so I had to have a one on one conversation with myself. Like, "what do you- what's your deal, Charlene? What makes you angry? Why are you upset? What's frustrating you? What's all these things." And so I sat down, I'm like, "oh my gosh, I work in the raddest industry in the world. Like, I get to travel all over the place. I get to go do all these cool events. I get to hang out with all these cool people. And I'm taking pictures and videos all day, and then all night I'm working, working, working.
So I was always there, but I was quote, "never having fun." Right? Like you are never doing anything for yourself. You weren't filling your bucket. You were just working and smashing things out. So I decided, "okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna shut my business down. It's gonna take me a year to shut it down because I have contracts that are out there. But in the meantime, I'm going to have a 'yes year'," you know, there's the movie now, right? "Yes Day" or whatever? I did this six years ago and said, "I'm just gonna say, 'yes!' Good plan/ bad plan." So I, uh, I started off the year and I'm like, I'm not gonna make excuses that I don't have time to do things. So BFG is one of my main partners and they had a bunch of events that were scheduled for the year. And so the one that I had won the year before, they're like, "Hey, Charlene, will you come out and do this event?" And I'm like, "yes! Absolutely!" Right? There's the word. And then they're like, "Hey, we're sponsoring this brand new event. It's called '36 hours you worry,' would you be interested in being a pro-team for us?"
I'm like, "yes!"- Bad plan, probably should have Googled that one, at least. They had two yeses and I'm like, "So, my friend is putting on this brand new event. It's a rally for all women. It's called the Rebel Rally. Uh, will you support me in that?" And they're like, "yes!" And I'm like, "great. This is rad." Like, "I got three huge events this year to participate in and do something with. This will fill my bucket back up!" Throughout the year, money is going down. These events came on. And I'm like, "well, I need a co-driver for each one, but they're all different skill sets. So I'm gonna go and challenge together and see- try and find a different co-driver, because if I'm feeling this way and I need my bucket full, other women are out there that feel this way, that need their bucket full too. Fair enough?"
Amy: Yes.
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: So I called BFG. I'm like, "what do you think?" They're like, "heck yeah! Do it Charlene. That'd be rad. We support you a hundred percent!" So I did this, and I released it at Easter Jeep Safari, and I only had two weeks for ladies to enter. And it was hard to enter. Like, you had to write an essay, you had to submit pictures.
Like, I wanted a bunch of stuff because I didn't just want anybody, because these were all big events. And I also had a goal. I had a goal of 10 people submitting, so I could find three that had enough vacation time to hang out with me, right. So at the end, in two weeks, I had 91 ladies from around the country entered to be my co-driver.
Melissa: So that demonstrated the need!
Charlene: I'm like, "what is happening here? What- what- what, why, why?" Luckily I had a process in plan.
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: So we went and did this and the very first event was trail emissions. It was us going down to Baja.It's an ABC special. You can look it up and watch it. Second event, 36 Hours You Worry. 36 hours of pulling wingeline, building bridges and driving over them. Like, doing all kinds of crazy. Changing tires, canoeing across a river. It was very dramatic. Like, all this stuff, 36 hours in North Carolina.
Melissa: Are you and your new partner the only two women?
Charlene: Yes! Imagine you, because you're like the challenge winner. It was nobody that was significantly offroad- oriented, not somebody in the industry.
Melissa: It wasn't, it was just a woman who wanted to do it!
Charlene: Yeah.
Melissa: Oh my gosh.
Charlene: And we took second in the pro class. Hello!
Melissa: Wow. Of course you did!
Amy: We would expect nothing else!
Charlene: That's just by trying though. I'm like, "we are just gonna come here and we are going to try."
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: I have no idea half of the stuff that we're gonna do, but we're gonna try and we're gonna try our hardest. And if it works, it works. And if it doesn't, it doesn't, right? Like, what do we have to prove?
Melissa: Everything, obviously!
Charlene: It worked out to our advantage. This is also when I started to realize I'm slightly competitive.
Melissa: Just then, right? Just then.
Amy: It took this much time to get to that point? Wow.
Charlene: So then the third event was the Rebel Rally, which is now, like, if you guys have not learned about it, please look up Rebel Rally. It's one of the things, every lady, regardless if you're into off-roading or not should look into doing it's a seven day navigation rally.
And it was the first year. My teammate and I went out, and again, my attitude was, "we are just going to try the best we can. Try the best we can." Well, we won of course, like , that's the way "the best we can" goes. Timeline wise, and remembering ladies, I'm shutting my business down. Like, I'm out.
Melissa: You told yourself you were out, but somehow I'm not believing this story!
Charlene: So my goal in life was to work at Coldstone. The, uh, the corporate office is right down the street from my house. And I'm like, "if I can sell tires, I can sell ice cream." So I was totally gonna go work at Coldstone in the marketing department. Like this was my goal. I was gonna shut my business down, and that was next on my list. Right.
Amy: Whole new industry.
Charlene: I- I was out. I was out. I was a hundred percent out.
Melissa: But then you won these massive competitions doing this thing that you're leaving. So how- how did that play out?
Charlene: Yeah, there's one more. So it's the end of the year. Started doing contracts, right. Just before the SEMA show and everything.
And people start to call me. And I know some of my main people that recommend me. And so I was calling them saying, "listen, I'm shutting my business down," you know, awkward, not awkward, "but please don't recommend me to anybody because it would just be way more helpful if I didn't say no, you can just say no for me." My one friend that I called, she's like, "you know, Charlene, you just need to breathe."
And Barbara's like, mama bear, you know? And I'm like, "Nope, I've been breathing for a year. This has been a plan. I'm out. We're done. We're over." She's like, "no, Charlene, you just need to breathe." And I'm like, "well, whatever." So a couple weeks later she calls me back and I'm just thinking, "she is wondering if I'm breathing," right. How my breathing is going, just checking in on me, like, "okay, did Charlene, pull herself outta the ditch this time?"
Amy: Yes. We needed to do a wellness check.
Charlene: Exactly. She answered or I answered and she's like, "this is Barbara Rainee calling on behalf of the opera motor sports hall of fame. And you've been nominated as the rising star in industry category."
Amy: Oh my gosh.
Charlene: "Is that right?" I said, "did you know that two weeks ago?" She's like "I did."
Melissa: She wanted you to do a little breathing before you hyperventilated!
Charlene: Well, she didn't want me to go too far. Like, "don't ditch yourself too far before you find out about this"
Melissa: I mean, we better cut the part out about Coldstone Creamery, because they might still call. I mean, when they hear this story-
Charlene: No kidding. Maybe I could be one of their brand ambassadors.
Melissa: There you go, okay. You can have their sticker on your vehicle.
Charlene: So anyways, I, uh, I'm like, "oh my gosh, what, what am I supposed to do? Like legitimately, let's think about this. What am I supposed to do?" Go up in front of the entire off-road industry,and you know, if I was to accept this award and say, "Hey, thanks a lot. Appreciate you. You know, for believing in me, but, uh, peace out. I'm quitting." Like, should I just take my resignation to the podium and push it across? Like, I don't know. So I, uh, I called my parents that day and I have my mom and dad on the phone together all the time.
So I'm like, "all right, I got good news and bad news. Which one do you want?" My mom's like, the news!" Right? So we all got excited about the award. And then, um, my dad's like, "well, what's the bad news?" I'm like, "I can't quit. How am I supposed to quit? Like, how am I supposed to leave the industry at this point? How am I supposed to do this?"
And he is like, "well, you know, Charlene, you've made a big impact with this lady's thing. And if there's anybody that can do it, you can do it." And I'm like, "Nope, Nope, Nope. It's a false positive. This is just a one off thing," you know, "I don't think it's gonna work." I was so negative about everything I'm like, "no, no, no."
And he is like, "well, what else are you gonna do?" I'm like, "I dunno,"
Amy: "I'm going to Coldstone dad!"
Charlene: I know! I left the phone call saying, "fine. I'll do it for one year and see what happens and I'll go out and I'll do a bunch of market research and start to understand how things are working, and what's working." And so that very next year, like we spent more money because I went on more vacations with rad women, and just did a bunch of market research and said, "okay, interesting, interesting, interesting."
And what everything came back to was, women want education. We want to know the "why" we want to know "how." We want to understand things, but we also need it in our voice because we learn differently than guys do. And especially because I'm coming from a male world, right. Where most of your educators are male. Girls want to learn.
They want to understand things and I'm like, "Check." And then we want adventure. Like, we wanna go do cool things and we wanna see places! And we wanna say, "oh my gosh, I did this, and this, and this, and this, and this!" like we're adventurers, especially if you're in the offroad element, like you're at that point in your life where you're like, "I wanna go, I wanna see, I wanna be," but the third word is the most important thing.
And what I found is we want to do it in a safe environment.
Amy: Mmhmm.
Charlene: So we wanna learn in a safe environment where we don't feel like we're getting nit-picked or pushed down or any of these other words. We wanna go adventure in a safe environment where if we go out, we know that somebody's gonna bring us back safely, right?
Or take care of us, or understand that, "okay. I'm with the right people and we'll be able to make it out." Every single thing. That we have done with Ladies Off-Road Network revolve around those three words. If you look at any of our programs, and we have a ton of them, education, adventure in a safe environment, and again, we- we've already referenced Rubicon trail.
Like, that's exactly what we did. These girls got their education in, they nailed it. And then they went on this adventure. And, you know, the Facebook post says it like I'm mama bear proud. Because I'm out there as mama bear, just like making sure everybody's safe and everybody's good. And everybody's having a great time.
And that is what Ladies Off-Road Network has become. And that's how we started it. Six years later!
Amy: Woah.
Charlene: We're still here!
Melissa: You are! I loved those recent pictures. You as the mama bear in front of all those women, like so super inspiring. I wanna know, like, the mama bear who told you to breathe? Is she still around? Is she still watching you succeed here?
Charlene: I literally left her house six hours ago. Yeah.
Amy: Oh, I love that.
Melissa: Yay! So we gotta circle back. You said you wanted to circle back on the competitive.
Charlene: Oh my goodness. So ladies, you may not think you're competitive, but let me tell you a story. So I had no idea how competitive I was.
I was a volleyball player in high school. I was super competitive in high school sports. Right. But then you don't go and compete against anything. I never was doing anything that felt competitive with a checkered flag, right. Something where you had a score at the end or a checkered flag, and they ranked you at the end or anything like that, the racing portion.
So all of a sudden I got into these checkered flag environments and I'm like, "whoo!" I forgot how competitive I was and strategic. And my brain was like, "okay, if we do it like this, and this, and this, and this, and this, 'woosh!' We can get to the front," you know, like all the strategy that goes into it and everything else.
And I was laughing at myself because people were calling me out. They're like, "you're so competitive and you're just winning!" And I'm like, "I'm not competitive at all. I don't understand what you're saying." And then I realized it I'm like, "oh, yeah, I am ultra competitive." But what I really did not realize, and if you- as- especially if you're a business owner, take this to heart, we compete against ourselves every single day.
Amy: Yes, absolutely.
Melissa: Yes.
Charlene: That is what I was competitive about and had no idea I was doing it because you'd never get a checkered flag. You never get the win. You never get that moment when you're like, I did it, I won. I'm excited. Like, you never have that finish line goal.
Right. And so I had no idea how competitive I was, even though. Every single day, I was competing against myself to be better or to push harder or to be more aggressive or any of those things. So one of the things I have changed since now, I acknowledge it and I encourage everybody else to do this also, is, give yourself a finish line.
So if you're working on a big project, if you're working on something, give yourself a finish line, say, "okay, I'm gonna, you know, when this deal closes, or, when this day is done, or when this project is over, or this client is handled, whatever that is for you.
Amy: Mm-hmm
Charlene: You take yourself to dinner and you say, "I just won."
Amy: That is just what we needed to hear, I think.
Melissa: I feel like I needed you to tell me this, like in and outside of this podcast, like for my whole life, I have to say, I don't think outside of sports, most women are even encouraged to celebrate wins. I think we're kind of told it's vain or it's it's narcissistic or it's showy or that's guy stuff, or, you know, we just want everybody to win or we just want everybody to feel good and-
Amy: Everyone gets a trophy!
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: Yeah. And you know, the trophy at the end is that piece of cheesecake. Whatever it is for you, you know, it does not matter, but, you have to stop and say, "I did a great job. I just won on this project. I'm awesome." You know, of course, sure, and then our overanalyzing comes out and says, "well, I'm gonna do this, and this, and this, better next time."
No, stop for a second. And give yourself the win. Give yourself the win. Give yourself the opportunity to win. "I just did this."
Melissa: Mm-hmm
Charlene: "I killed it." Be proud. And then, you know, go back to work the next day and say, "okay, I'm gonna compete against myself again, because I know that I totally won that, but I also know that if I wiggle wiggle here or wiggle, wiggle there, we could do it just a little bit easier or a little bit better. This next project I'm gonna do that." And then at the end of that project, you're like, "heck yeah, this was so much better." And you get to eat another piece of cheesecake because you just won again!
Amy: Those are such profound words and it's so insightful, as women oftentimes, it isn't ever really enough. We're not celebrating those victories.
We're not sitting down and celebrating the cheesecake. We're just eating it in the dark, in the middle of the night where nobody's looking, but we're not celebrating that win. What I'm- what I'm hearing from my therapeutic standpoint, it's like you're giving yourself permission to celebrate the win, to celebrate the finish line.
Did you recognize this over these last six years of doing the Ladies Off-Roading? Is this where you realize that these wins, these checkered flags, are so critical in sustaining? Because you probably didn't see that when you were doing your media venue.
Charlene: Exactly. And that's part of like, refilling your bucket, right?
We all need to refill our bucket. Like, we're all getting drained out. Life is so fast and so crazy. You have to take responsibility for refilling your own bucket. Sorry, but you have to do it. Nobody else can do it for you. And it's figuring out how to do that. But one of them is through that win process.
And so, yes. After every event, after- after everybody leaves and they're still alive and their vehicles are still together, I'm like, "Yes! I'm exhausted, which is why I'm taking myself out to dinner too. You know what we fully won." And the team, I- it's never a one- off person for me. Like, you know, there's always a team around us, whether we wanna admit it or not, there's multiple people around.
And so I'm really aggressive all the time to make sure my team understands how much they were a part of that win also. Some will hear you and some still have deaf ears because they're like, "yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's my job. It's what I was gonna do anyways." And I'm like, "no, you don't understand, like the role you played was a major role and you need to take the appreciation. You need to take the compliment." So I've also got used to saying that. I actually said it to a guy yesterday. When I picked up a truck, he was a service advisor and he's like, "no, no, no, this is my job." I'm like, "no, you need to take the compliment because you did a very good job."
Amy: Yes.
Charlene: And you need to make sure that you're hearing it,." You know, that's another piece of the pie, is, especially as women, we don't wanna take compliments we're like, "oh yeah, it's fine. You know, we're just doing what we do."
Melissa: Mm-hmm right.
Charlene: It's like, "no, take the compliment and appreciate it and say, thank you." And-
Amy: Or we make excuses. "Oh, well I just got it on sale." Or "no, no, it's just the way my body is." Or "no-" it's just like, there's always- we always have to explain ourselves and it's so obnoxious just in- say thank you.
Melissa: I think that level of providing encouragement and spreading acknowledgement and, you know, sharing the win, that has to be contagious for the women in your network. I think that probably would be a recipe for success anywhere. I mean, doesn't everybody need to hear "good job," "thank you,"?
Charlene: Yeah, I hope it is. I hope it is. You know, we definitely have our moments on the trails where it's my job to push people pass their comfort zone.
Melissa: Right.
Charlene: That's my job, right. Is to push somebody past their comfort zone. That's not always the best feeling. That's not always the best moment. You know, every person handles that moment a little bit differently in their anxiety and emotion, et cetera.
But that's, my job is to push you there. So that then when you're not with me, you're like, "oh, this is easy because remember what Charlene put me through!" At the end of the day, or the end of the five days, or the end of the event, whatever it turns into, it is always a hundred percent where we all sit down and we make sure we recognize what we did that day.
What were the accomplishments that we did that day? Because there's so many things that happened, right? And then at the end of the week, like, look at how you came in and look at how you're leaving today. And that's something we also don't do in life. We just get so busy with day-to- day- to -day -to -day -to -day.
And all of a sudden, "Oh, what's today? It's like August 4th or something, or August 27th? Or, I don't know, is it September yet?" Right? Like-
Amy: I think it's December.
Charlene: I don't even know! It's December practically! We might as well just call it December at this point, because I think the Christmas decorations are already out.
We don't even give ourselves those deadlines but, that's something I'm adamant about in our events is, "let's reflect on where we came from, to who we are today. And you leave with pride, leave with pride of what you did and go home and brag about what you did and tell everybody about what you did and be proud of that."
That's something that we don't do. I'm guilty of it. I don't- I stink at talking about myself and bragging about myself, but over the years, because of- because of situations like this, where I at least have to tell my story, like I've gotten more comfortable with certain stories. Right.
Melissa: Right.
Charlene: And then there's other ones where I'm like, "Well...yeah, you know, it was- that's just what I do."
Melissa: Right. So even you, even you fall prey to that. Is it like a false modesty? Or we've just been conditioned to sort of deflect?
Charlene: I think it's just being humble. I think it's okay to be humble, but I think it's also okay to be proudful.
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: So be proudful, you know, make your- make your stance, make your- make your statement, but also be humble.
Like you don't have to be the- the one running around with all talk, no walk, either.
Melissa: Yes.
Charlene: So make sure that you find- as we say, "stay within your lines," right? When you're on the highway, understand where you are, what you got going and be proud of it. Be proud of it.
Amy: So, here we are six years later, I'm guessing that this has really worked out for you.
You really changed the narrative though, of where you were and where you are today. We wanna know from you suggestions or what advice you would have, to- to someone who wants to know more about your industry or who does have a- a kindling project inside that they haven't had flamed or fueled. I mean, you've had several and- and you've had different kindlings. It sounds like you've had a lot of support, mentors, people who have really taught you. What words would you have to someone?
Charlene: Find a mentor and- and latch on, and don't feel like you're in their way. In the off-road space, I am proud to be a mentor and available to any lady that's out there that wants to be in the off-road space, like come into our circle, but you have to take advantage of it.
Melissa: Right.
Charlene: So this is the trick I'm providing all of these opportunities. If you don't take the step forward.
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: You don't get the opportunity.
Amy: And we're not gonna beg you either.
Charlene: Exactly. Like if you don't show up to the table, I don't know how to help you. Right?
Amy: Yeah.
Charlene: I've been stranded in Reno for a couple days long story, but I was there.
And so I pulled the list of all the ladies in the area and I emailed them all out. And three girls showed up to go on a trail ride. One I kind of knew, one I had met the weekend before for five minutes. And another one I had never met or interacted with at all online. And all three of them showed up. And we had the best time and I'm like,
Amy: Love that.
Charlene: This is what it's about.
Right. You've gotta take that first step. You've gotta show up. And one of them, the one I had met for like five minutes, I totally get her. She's like, "I have anxiety, you know, meeting new people and it's just, you know, Rocky," and a lot of people have that, but if you don't come to the table or even, a small table, you know, it doesn't have to be the big table, or sometimes it's easier to come to the convention where there's a bunch of people and you just kinda filter in, right?
There's no light shining on you. That's the way that you start to get those opportunities and you start to get motivated and you find your, quote your "people." That's why I hear about ladies offer network all the time is, "oh my gosh. I just found my people!" Because we don't mind getting dirt under our nails.
We're in a mode where we're educated. It's not just any kind of off-road group. Like we are here to learn. Ladies are there to learn. They want to be educated. It's a different style of person, but they also don't mind getting their nails dirty. Right. And so they're out there and they're having a great time.
And those two things bind that group together to where they can really find quote, their "people." Now, they're spread all over the United States.
Amy: Yeah.
Charlene: Might not be anybody that's like local down the street that you're gonna have dinner with every night, but you have a great group of people that can support you.
So somehow, you know, again, I just described my scene, my off-road scene, and what can happen there. But if somebody has a kindling that they're looking at, that's within their own scene, start, you know, researching within it and try and see if you can find that group that encourages common people and support systems, and don't be shy to have a voice, you know? Go to one of their events, show up, don't have expectations, just show up and say, "you know what? I'm just gonna come and learn and I'm gonna see what happens, and we are either gonna like it and show up again," or "I'm not gonna like it and say, 'well, I sure did learn a lot!'"
Melissa: Mmhmm.
Amy: Right. You know, one of the things I tell- I've mentored or students that I've had, we learned what we don't want before we learn what we do want, you know, we think, "oh, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna try it!" And it's like, "oh gosh, that was nothing what I thought it was gonna be." And then we can just start to go through the process of elimination. That's what it sounds like your path has really been.
Charlene: If you want a funny moment, the number one thing that I have to do in my marketing for ladies offered network is I have to sell the points, that "girls, it's okay. You will be fine hanging out with 10 other girls." Because everybody thinks that girls are catty and don't wanna be around them. And you know, all these words, like, "I don't wanna be around the- you know, *gibberish mimicking* I've always had negative experiences."
Melissa: Yeah.
Charlene: And so that has been my number, one thing that I have to overcome in my marketing.
These are rad women. Come and be a part of the rad women and do that. How unfortunate is that? That that's how I'm spending my marketing dollar, yet at the same time, they do take that step. They're like, "oh, whoa, you were totally right. Like, this is the right group of people." So you do need to do that and find what you like and what you don't like and find that right group for you.
You know, Ladies Off-Road Network may completely not be the right group for you. Like it may not be, but it could also be the raddest group that you've ever found. So, you know, there's some people that have come and gone and I'm like, "sweet!" You know? No stress.
Melissa: Well, congratulations for, I mean, for all your success, but like for creating such an awesome community for women.
Charlene: And in our group, it doesn't matter if you've never been off-road before ever, ever.
And you have little tires and you don't know how to put it into four wheel drive. I don't care. That's some of the most fun, is, "here, let's teach you how to do it right the first time." There-
Amy: Yes.
Charlene: There's other ladies like myself that are big tire girls and we're out running buggies and we're doing all this crazy stuff that is completely ridiculous.
You know, that's where their skillset is also funneling down too. So we all work together and everybody is in between. That's the funnest part. When we have our convention and everybody is sitting at the tables, I'm like, "look around. There's not one of you that's on the same stairstep. Every single one of you is on a different stairstep in your journey of offroading. And so don't compare yourself. Don't sit here and compare yourself to anybody else in this room, because you are on your own journey and you are gonna push yourself how many stair steps this weekend." And if somebody from, you know, that's up above you can help you pull you up, great. If you're that one up above, find somebody and help pull them up with you.
It's a great environment. And I hope that everybody finds a group like that, that they can be part of.
Amy: Oh my gosh.
Melissa: Me too.
Amy: That is like so unbelievable. And, and you know what, the thing is, Charlene, you can apply that to any industry in so many levels. I love that you have found this community or they found you, I mean, such an inspiration and really a pioneer on so many levels.
I can only imagine if I was interested in off-roading, I would probably be worshiping you because I'm like worshiping you now. Like you are just so- so inspiring. Really. Thank you so much for carving out some time for us today and sharing part of your journey, and, you really are inspiring. Very honored to have spent some time with you.
Melissa: Me too.
Charlene: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Melissa: I hope you're not still stuck in Reno. And if you are, and you need me to come get you, I will.
Charlene: I'm actually halfway between Reno and somewhere else. We're in a truck stop right now. My friends, welcome to life on the road!
Amy: Love that. You have safe travels and thank you so much.
Charlene: Thank you ladies. I appreciate you very much. Best of luck in continuing your Kindle project.
Amy: Aw, thank you so much.
Charlene: Keep it going.
Melissa: I love the support. Thanks Charlene. We'll talk to you soon!
Charlene: All right.
Melissa: Take care.