Speak. Lead. Repeat. with Asandi Conner
In this episode of the Kindling Project podcast, host Melissa Halpin speaks with Asandi Conner, a writer, coach, and strategist, about the importance of finding one's voice and leading with authenticity. Asandi shares her journey from being silenced to becoming a voice bearer for women, emphasizing the need for courage in leadership. They discuss the Detroit Equity Action Lab, which focuses on racial equity leadership development, and the transformative experiences of its fellows. Asandi also highlights the significance of creating sacred spaces for women to gather and the legacy she hopes to leave behind, centered on co-liberation and empowerment.
Find your voice!
https://www.sayitwritedetroit.com/
https://www.facebook.com/SayItWriteDetroit/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/sayitwritedetroit
http://instagram.com/sayitwritedetroit/
Listen to the full episode:
-
Melissa Halpin (00:11)
Welcome back to the Kindling Project podcast, where we spotlight women who are setting the world on fire with their purpose, presence, and creativity. Today's guest is writer, coach, strategist, and sacred space designer, Asandi Conner She leads the Detroit Equity Action Lab, and she runs her own consultancy, Say It Right Detroit. And she helps women leaders speak powerfully and lead with authenticity. Thanks for coming.
So nice to see you.
Asandi Conner (00:40)
Thank you
for having me. I'm excited and glad we finally got this together.
Melissa Halpin (00:45)
Yeah, yeah, I just, I really love your energy and I had the good fortune of attending one of your Say It Right events last year and I'm just pleased to just sort of share your story with the Kindling Project community.
Asandi Conner (01:00)
Thank you for the invitation and I have been inspired by your other guests and you as well. So let's keep the fire and the flame stowing.
Melissa Halpin (01:09)
Yay! Okay, well, let's start with a kickoff question. So your bio you sent me said that you're a voice bearer, and I feel like that's so powerful. For someone who's never heard that term, would you like to define it for us?
Asandi Conner (01:23)
Yes, I really think of it as a facilitator. So the work that I do is often rooted in helping women unleash or unearth their voice. So really helping to facilitate, but also bear witness to that transformation. If you think of like a caterpillar to a butterfly and that transformation from.
One, this metamorphosis is often sometimes what I see in my clients. And so really helping women to have their own butterfly moment of unearthing their voice, discovering their leadership. What does that look and sound like in terms of authenticity and helping to facilitate that based on who they are in the journey that they need to take?
Melissa Halpin (02:10)
I really find that to be so beautiful and so inspiring. And I thought about it before we got on this call today about bearing witness and that for a lot of us, we don't feel seen. I mean, even if we're having our metamorphosis, even if we're pursuing our passions, sometimes it's just powerful to have somebody say, see you.
Asandi Conner (02:31)
Absolutely, absolutely. And in part, that being seen and being heard in part was really the birth of Say It Right, in a very organic way, very much rooted and grounded in being seen and heard.
Melissa Halpin (02:40)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's super important. And that's something, I mean, I think we fight, we fight to be heard, right? And it's tiring.
Asandi Conner (02:54)
Yeah, it's exhausting. And you would imagine that in some places and spaces that you would presume you're automatically hurt, whether it is in your home, in your family, or with your family, in the workplace, regardless of whatever positional power you hold, you would presume that, and even in spaces where there are other women who may feel similarly, that they have not been seen or heard. So it can be more difficult and challenging
Melissa Halpin (03:04)
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (03:22)
Or in my situation, if you were raised what I would consider old school, children were seen and not heard. But even how we were seen was different than the way that I want women to be seen now.
Melissa Halpin (03:37)
Exactly. That's exactly how I feel. having a long career and kind of fighting for a seat at the table and sometimes being the only female at that table, sometimes you don't have the confidence to be heard. You just feel grateful to be there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Asandi Conner (03:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, yes, yeah. Ooh, I can relate. Yes,
I can relate, definitely relate to that, sadly.
Melissa Halpin (04:04)
But it does really feel and seem like you have found your voice. And I want to talk about the root of that. So when was the moment you realized you were really meant to use your voice and to help others find their voices?
Asandi Conner (04:18)
is so interesting because I apparently, and I don't really recall this, but apparently when I was a child, I was quite talkative. And folks who know me now, I think would be surprised by that because I'm often the observer in spaces, particularly in large spaces. I tend to just step back and observe and I'm very comfortable in the background. But apparently as a child, I was really talkative. And around five years old, my mother,
Melissa Halpin (04:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (04:47)
told me to shut up, which is out of character for her. And apparently for a couple of days, I understand, I just stopped talking. Like it really hit me. And this is the first time that I've shared this story publicly and I do have her permission to share it. So it's really interesting to have that. And I wonder in some deep memory if that was there because I was masterful.
Melissa Halpin (04:49)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
⁓
I'm here.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (05:15)
at quieting and silencing my voice. Really up until I would say probably around early 40s. I was really good with not saying what I wanted to say, not using my words, despite the inspiration later from my mother who I also think is a very savvy communicator who taught me that you can say anything to anybody.
Melissa Halpin (05:17)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (05:40)
it's all about how you say it. I watched her and she role modeled that, but I didn't feel, going back to what you said, that I didn't have the confidence and in many ways I think didn't feel like I had permission. So part of being a voice bearer is also saying to women, I'm granting you permission that you don't need to use your voice. So that silence unknowingly really created
Melissa Halpin (05:49)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (06:08)
It was harmful for me, but I didn't know it. Whether particularly in the workplace, in personal intimate relationships, in family relationships, just simply not speaking up was not serving me well. And what began to happen was unknowingly I was doing Say It Right before Say It Right even existed with actually with my mom and with other colleagues and family.
Melissa Halpin (06:21)
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (06:34)
I became what I would describe as the scribe for the family. If something needed to be written, they wanted to articulate an idea where there was something as simple as an ad for a program book. I was the go-to person. And I also became the person in different circles that I was in to help people articulate their thoughts. So folks would reach out to me and say, I want to say this, or the example I use that is a real life example.
someone got a performance evaluation that they did not agree with and they wanted to respond to it, but not in the moment because they didn't want to risk their job, but they wanted to say what they wanted. They needed to meaningfully and impactfully communicate and they would reach out. They reached out to me and I'm like, okay, well let's download. I was creating a framework that I later would use for my business. I download to me what you want to say. Like I want to hear it in your authentic voice.
Melissa Halpin (07:28)
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (07:32)
And now let's together figure out how you may be able to adapt this and still honor the intention, but say what you need to say and retain your job. And so I began to do that in different scenarios. I just became a resource. ⁓ And then that led to really folks starting to say, other people, what you do,
Melissa Halpin (07:50)
Right.
Asandi Conner (07:58)
is a skill and a talent that most people don't have. And people need what you do, they just don't know it, and they don't know that someone like you exists. So that is really kind of what happened. I had no intentions on ever becoming an entrepreneur. I describe myself as a reluctant entrepreneur. I was serving on a board of a nonprofit, teen hype, and they didn't have a communications person.
Melissa Halpin (08:24)
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (08:24)
So
I was that person just volunteering, writing different, all kinds of content and being a strategic thought partner for the CEO. And they became my first client because the CEO said, you do entirely too much pro bono work for us. We need to start paying you. I'm like, no, it's okay. And she's like, no, it's really too much. And they were my first client and still are a client of mine today.
Melissa Halpin (08:28)
Right.
Right.
That's great. Yeah. That's a lot how my business grew too. Yeah. yeah, very organic, very word of mouth. I was thinking when you were talking about your gift is verbal, and mine tends to be more visual, design and creative direction. And I wonder if there was some moment in my life like yours where
Asandi Conner (08:59)
Mmm, okay, very, very organic.
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Halpin (09:20)
Maybe I was silenced. I know I always felt this pressure to get along with everybody. Be a good girl. Don't make waves. And so I think I just naturally gravitated towards communicating visually because I think sometimes little girls get pushback from communicating verbally. But then you find yourselves in these organizations that
Asandi Conner (09:29)
Yes. Yes.
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Melissa Halpin (09:49)
don't necessarily know how to express themselves, whether it's visual or verbal or through design or through experiences. And then we can fill that gap, I guess.
Asandi Conner (09:59)
Yeah, it is interesting. think seeds are planted, whether we are consciously aware of it or not, those seeds are planted. I'm grateful that I figured it out, that it, even for me, that it emerged and it, I was able through opportunities to unearth it and be able to share it. So it's, while it is a business, it is very much, I see it as service.
Melissa Halpin (10:02)
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah.
Yeah, it
feels like a calling with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I do kind of, I really often in these conversations with women, this is at the heart of what we're talking about here, is get in touch with that calling, with that authenticity, with that thing that you sort of comes naturally to you, and you may be doing it for work to take care of yourself and your family, but you would do it anyway.
Asandi Conner (10:24)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Melissa Halpin (10:49)
Right? That's the space that you want to be in to really, really flourish. ⁓ And I know you talk a lot about leading with authenticity, but what does that mean in a world that just demands so much confirmation?
Asandi Conner (10:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
It's hard. I mean, it really is hard. Let me say for me, it was difficult. As I shared, I didn't really come into and lean into my voice until really my early 40s. And part of that was the workplace, really. Even though I was doing this work for a nonprofit as a volunteer and helping them discover their unique verse in the nonprofit ecosystem.
I hadn't really done that for myself. ⁓ And while I was aspiring to be a leadership at the organization that I was at, I felt really strongly that leadership had a singular look. So that in my mind, leadership was a middle-aged white man. And that was how I needed to lead. And it took a long time to figure that out.
Melissa Halpin (11:32)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Asandi Conner (11:55)
No, you know, I had had conversations with folks about presence and executive presence, and I was very comfortable leading from behind or in the middle. I wasn't I'm not I wasn't what someone would describe as a charismatic leader. That's that that is not who I am. And I felt pressured to change and become something that I was not, which really did not feel
Melissa Halpin (11:57)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (12:23)
in my body did not feel right. It did not feel right. It did not feel good. So that really coming to terms and discovering like, no, no, no, no leadership, even though was, and I was doing leadership development work, working with brilliant people, mid-career professionals. And part of it was watching them and the informal coaching that I was giving them that helped me along my journey. like really understanding that
Melissa Halpin (12:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Asandi Conner (12:51)
I lead in a very unique way that is unique to Assandi and that that is good enough. I don't need to mimic someone else's leadership style, particularly that of a middle-aged white man that's not going to serve me. That is not going to serve me. But I didn't know that for decades.
Melissa Halpin (12:54)
Right.
No.
Yeah, me too. Me too. I still fight with it. And the bottom line is like, each of us that have some call to leadership or to set an example or to build something, we're supposed to do it in our own voice and in our own space and in our own way. And the fact that we have this sort of white male patriarchy in America that sets the standard for
Asandi Conner (13:15)
You
Melissa Halpin (13:38)
almost everything I can think of from leadership to culture to politics to everything. It's very hard to bump up against it. It feels like a monolith that we can't overcome, but we can, and we are.
Asandi Conner (13:40)
Yes.
Yeah,
I think courage is a big thing. So I talk about that with my clients. think whether it is in leadership or communication, courage, you need courage. And courage, I would choose courage over confidence, actually. I think courage is really deep. And I believe you can build confidence with courage. And so having the courage,
Melissa Halpin (14:00)
Thank
Yeah.
Right.
Asandi Conner (14:15)
and giving yourself permission to say, this is who I am, this is how I like to lead, and I'm gonna trust intuitively that it's going to work and that it is good enough. And that also doesn't mean that there aren't areas of growth as a leader, but what it does mean is that you are accepting, embracing, and willing to share the leadership gifts that you're bringing to whatever the scenario is.
Melissa Halpin (14:39)
Right.
Asandi Conner (14:42)
And also acknowledging that leadership is not equated to gender, race, any sort of identities or economic or education. Like there are leaders, I think about my community, there are leaders in my community, the person who's operating the president of the block club, that is a leader. so also breaking down, debunking these myths around what leadership is and what leadership roles are.
Melissa Halpin (14:49)
Right.
Yeah.
100%, right?
Asandi Conner (15:09)
are also I think a part of the work that I strive to do both in my business but also in the work outside of say it right.
Melissa Halpin (15:18)
Well, and I feel like both of us are community builders, and I wonder if you agree with this. It's surprising who shows up in your community and really responds to your style and your form of leadership. And it's rewarding too when people tell you. For me, I often feel that as an artist, I tend to think of myself like I'm behind the easel, I'm behind the computer, I'm behind the scenes. So there's been all this sort of push in recent years to
do a podcast, do social media, do a photo shoot, put yourself out there as the brand. And I struggle with that and I feel sort of, you know, awkward and self-conscious and maybe it's like the Gen X in me, it's not, it doesn't come easily. And just sharing that with others, you know, it does resonate with a lot of people when you show up and you express your fears or your concerns or your hurdles. And it actually does take confidence to say,
You know what? It doesn't matter how many times I have to look at myself on this Zoom video. I feel squirrely and weird because it's not my natural habitat. And it's okay. Yeah.
Asandi Conner (16:18)
Right, right. And it's okay. And it is okay. In those moments
of sharing, which is one of the things that I love about the kindling project community, is that vulnerability there that is like real. It's real. It feels, which I believe I expressed before, like for an online space, it feels real. It feels real and authentic. And so,
Melissa Halpin (16:31)
Yeah.
Thank you.
Asandi Conner (16:46)
You're like, yeah, I'm not the only one. It's not me. And there is, is also a choice to say, I'm going to do it anyway. I'm going to do it anyway. I'm going to take the risk. I'm going to be courageous to do it anyway and build my confidence. And as other women see that in this community that you've built, whether they know it or not, it gives them permission and or inspiration.
Melissa Halpin (16:55)
Right.
Yes.
Asandi Conner (17:14)
to try their kindling project and see what the hell happens.
Melissa Halpin (17:19)
Exactly, exactly. Well, let's talk about another of your passion projects, Detroit Equity Action Lab or DEAL. So DEAL is such important and complex work with the heart of the leadership development you're doing there really being centered. Tell us a little bit more about that.
Asandi Conner (17:27)
Yes.
Yeah, so DEAL is, we celebrated a decade last year. ⁓ And what's unique about the Detroit Equity Action Lab is that it is actually housed at Wayne State University in Wayne State's law school, and more specifically in the Damon J. Keefe Center for Civil Rights. So many folks are surprised or don't know that there's a civil rights center in Wayne State's law school, and there is actual a physical center that is
Melissa Halpin (17:44)
and
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Asandi Conner (18:08)
a physical space within the law school where we reside. what I love about DEAL is that while we're in the law school, we're on Wayne State's campus, we're for the community. Our programming is not for students, it is for the community. our core program really is a racial equity leadership development program.
Melissa Halpin (18:30)
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (18:30)
It is one year, it is free, and it is for anyone who self-identifies as a racial equity leader. And it doesn't matter, and the men only requirement is they have to be 18. So what is also beautiful is that the fellowship is a space for multiracial, multigenerational. So we've had a cohort where we've had a fellow as
Melissa Halpin (18:43)
Hmm.
Asandi Conner (18:57)
in their early 20s to a fellow who was an elder in 81. So you can imagine having these folks with diverse backgrounds, experiences, and wisdom, and history coming together, being led by a dynamic design team that facilitates our curriculum. It really is magical. It is really magical.
Melissa Halpin (19:03)
Yeah.
Right.
Asandi Conner (19:23)
And so we take them on this journey that is intentionally not DEI. So we are a racial equity, which for us is different from DEI. And so we take them on a journey, but we start with the personal. Unlike many sort of learning environments or workshops, we start with the individual. Who are you? Who are you as a person in the work that you're doing?
Melissa Halpin (19:44)
Right.
Asandi Conner (19:48)
And that really is transformational. We've seen it. We've seen it over the years how transformational the experience can be. And together over a decade, we've built a network of over 200 racial equity leaders who are working both in public sector, nonprofit, private sector. We even have some entrepreneurs, we've had some entrepreneurs over the years that participate in the fellowship program.
Melissa Halpin (19:52)
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (20:14)
And it's, it is, I often tell people I have had some interesting work experiences in my career. This is the best career job that I have ever had. It is a beautiful way for me to, I get to fully show up in all my Assondiness in this role. I get to bring all of Assondi and,
Melissa Halpin (20:36)
Love that for a Sandi.
I want to be a fellow. Can I apply?
Asandi Conner (20:43)
Youth most certainly can, you most certainly
can. And we define racial equity very broadly, which I think is also unique, or racial equity leadership, because people think often that to do racial equity work, that means you're on the front lines or you're protesting. I will be 55 this year. I'm probably not getting on anybody's protest line anymore. I'm probably never doing that again. But that doesn't mean that I'm not a racial equity leader. So an example that I
Melissa Halpin (20:50)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Asandi Conner (21:12)
I often will share with people is if you think about the students who went south to register folks to vote. You think about them going down south. And you think about those students as racial equity leaders, of course, but you also got to think about the folks who mapped out their itinerary, who coordinated the transportation, who made the lunches. All of those folks in their own way.
Melissa Halpin (21:19)
Right.
Right.
Asandi Conner (21:38)
are part of this racial equities collective that made that happen. So it takes everybody and all of our roles and all of our work to bring about what we want to see in terms of a racial equity Detroit and region.
Melissa Halpin (21:40)
Yes. Yes.
that like experiencing being part of a collective like that for something meaningful like racial justice.
We couldn't need it more than we need it right now. And then for those of us who wake up every morning distraught and alone and feeling like so helpless and what can I do about so many big problems? Being part of a collective is just, you know, is so powerful. It's so important to understand that we're not alone in these big, huge life, you know, challenges.
Asandi Conner (22:04)
Yes.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah, it is. I would as I was listening to you, I was thinking of the word solace. That's what comes to mind. Like you are in and also in community. We refer to our our different cohorts as a network, but it really is a community and an opportunity to have conversations and to learn.
Melissa Halpin (22:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (22:48)
So you're having conversations, but you're also learning and in some ways being challenged personally, ⁓ which I think is lovely and helps to facilitate our growth.
Melissa Halpin (22:54)
Yeah, right,
Yeah, I think you have to be, I think you have to always ask yourself, you know, where do I need to grow and to accept challenge? So what kind of transformations have you seen in the leaders you work with?
Asandi Conner (23:08)
Yeah.
wow, so we have had folks come into the fellowship with one expectation, thinking that they're going to learn just like some typical hard, or maybe even some soft skills that they'll take back to their organization. But what they leave with oftentimes is because we challenge them to do some work outside of what we call soul work.
Melissa Halpin (23:41)
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (23:41)
outside
of the fellowship space. So they often are transformed because they've done some work around family, family lineage to understand what or who may have either inspired or role modeled or facilitated their calling to this work. So there's often really this really deep personal transformation of who they are, whose they are, and where they come from.
Melissa Halpin (23:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Asandi Conner (24:08)
That is huge. And then also thinking about the role of identities and not just racial identities, but the different identities that we all hold and how that influences decision making within our organizations. How are those identities showing up? Are you being inclusive of different identities in your decision making or either in your service delivery?
because most of our fellows are working at nonprofits. So what I find is that they are asking different questions, not only of themselves, but their organizations and in their families. Like they're digging deep. It peaks curiosity and discovery. fellows often will go off to do research far and above beyond what we've asked them to do within the fellowship, because they've started down this rabbit hole of curiosity.
Melissa Halpin (24:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (24:59)
One of the things that we have, I would say that I've noticed since I've been with D.E.A.L.E. for about the past five, almost five years, is this importance of co-liberation. So we talk about moving our fellows from allyship to co-liberation and really help challenging them to think about what that means in terms of my liberation is tied to yours and yours is tied to mine.
We are interconnected and it is really inescapable and we need everybody, not at the sacrifice of anybody else, but very much like this moment now you talked about waking up. I see this as another moment for us to try to get it right or at least try, attempt to do something different.
Melissa Halpin (25:37)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I hadn't heard the term, collaboration before, but there is this whole dialogue going on in the culture where we have folks saying, well, I didn't think it was gonna affect me. And that it's just such a, it's just such a gross and powerful form of selfishness that I almost have a hard time wrapping my head around like, well, it's all of us, right?
Asandi Conner (26:03)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Halpin (26:08)
It's all of us. It's our country. It's America. It's our children. It's our future. Like, we're not divided up as much as we think we are.
Asandi Conner (26:08)
Yeah.
Correct. And it's the land. It is us as humans, but it's also these creatures and beings that are unseen. It's the land. is all exactly. It is all interconnected. Yes.
Melissa Halpin (26:20)
Yeah.
Yeah, the resources, the earth, like the pixie dust, right? Like
how do you live in this world? not to ever make an excuse for anybody, but the level of like selfishness is so shocking to me that I actually almost feel sad for people. Like your version of yourself is so isolated from everything else.
Asandi Conner (26:49)
Yeah, it's amazing. I often will say
people are amazing and fascinating. Yeah, yes.
Melissa Halpin (26:55)
Like how? How are we? Yeah, guess,
yeah, we're all just showing up in just, you know, I guess a massive plethora of differences. don't know, in backgrounds. Yeah, yeah.
Asandi Conner (27:07)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, and grace. you, we
have an opportunity, but even that is a choice, to extend that grace and to be curious, to ask those questions. Like, hmm, okay, well, what is your perspective? How are you viewing that? How did you? And how did you get there? Yes. Yeah.
Melissa Halpin (27:15)
Yep.
Yeah.
How did you get there? How did you get there? Yeah. Yeah. How did you get there?
Well, speaking to community, I know you also are a space designer. And you describe yourself as a designer of beautiful sacred spaces.
And I can confirm that I attended an event where you created a very peaceful afternoon at a point in my life where that was the only thing I needed. I really was recovering from several months of hard thing after hard thing after hard thing. And I was reluctant to go to another event, right? you know, event to me means socializing and pressure and I have to look good and...
Asandi Conner (28:08)
Yes. Yeah.
Melissa Halpin (28:10)
You know, whatever, cheers and selfies. And I don't have a problem with any of that when I'm in the humor for it. But you created a different kind of sacred space that I have been telling people about ever since then. But I want hear you describe it, describe your intent.
Asandi Conner (28:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
thank you. Thank you for that feedback and affirmation. for me, sacred space can be wherever you are. And I do believe you can create it. I love interior design. And the approach that I take with interior design is the same as I do with my writing. So I believe.
Melissa Halpin (28:40)
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (28:48)
your space ought to be. When you walk into a space, when you walk into my house or your house or your office, it ought to look like, this is, Melissa lives here, she works here. And so again, being that, going back to the word authenticity, going back to who you are, and I believe that your spaces, just like your words, what you say, what you write, needs to be reflective of you. And so for me,
Melissa Halpin (28:58)
Yeah, right.
Right.
Asandi Conner (29:13)
I am a person, need order to be able to think and to be creative, but I also want to be inspired by spaces. So when I had the idea for the day retreat that you attended, it actually was another woman who unknowingly gave me permission to do that. I attended her day retreat probably about a year prior and I was like, I watched her
Melissa Halpin (29:35)
Mmm.
Asandi Conner (29:42)
bring parts of herself into that. And it was unlike anything I had ever experienced. And I said, oh, I can do this. I can create an experience that I want and that I believe that I've heard from other women that they need. And so that really, was also about leaning into me, being true to me, but also sharing my gifts and talents.
Melissa Halpin (29:51)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Asandi Conner (30:12)
and creating a space for other women to gather. So the idea of gathering is very, I think gathering on purpose. So, and what that purpose is or how it looks can be different and not necessarily structured. But I knew from that day retreat that I attended, like I immediately on the way home started planning the retreat that you came to. I knew that I wanted it to be, I wanted women to feel comfortable.
Melissa Halpin (30:16)
Thank
Right.
Asandi Conner (30:39)
I wanted you all to be able to come and just be, just be, to be softly or lovingly guided, but to be able to be. The space had to be really comfortable. I wanted it to feel like you all were in my living room. That was the dream. And for you to feel welcomed.
Melissa Halpin (30:39)
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (31:02)
physically be comfortable. So the idea of having some floor pillows so folks could sit on the floor if they wanted to. whatever you needed to kind of anticipate and provide that, providing delicious food that was, you I know was cooked with love and so that there's nourishment there. And then also the space itself, not just the room that we were in, but the grounds that we were on at the stables.
Melissa Halpin (31:13)
Mm hmm. Right.
Asandi Conner (31:29)
Like you being able to have access to that and experience that beauty and allow that to be a secondary space to kind of affirm and also nurture in its own very natural way. And so I knew that that's what I wanted and I wanted it to feel comfortable and I wanted you all to know kind of what to anticipate. So I think I shared information like dress comfortably, don't.
Melissa Halpin (31:39)
Yeah. Yeah.
Asandi Conner (31:55)
Like don't overthink it, just come. I just want you to come and trust that you'll walk away with some tools and that it'll be worthwhile. But really thinking intentionally about the intent of the gathering, how I wanted it to feel, what parts of me I wanted to bring into it that I thought would be welcomed. ⁓ And folks would be like.
Melissa Halpin (31:57)
Yeah. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Asandi Conner (32:19)
curious about and open to. And that's really how I got there in terms of what you experienced. But when I think about spaces, I think about, I'm an avid fan of HGTV. This was not in my bio, but I love HGTV. It has sparked me doing projects, particularly I used to watch the DIY Network and like, I can do that. I can do that. And I figure it out, but
Melissa Halpin (32:21)
Right.
Me too.
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (32:46)
But, you know.
Melissa Halpin (32:46)
They make it
a little, they edit it down to look a little easier than it is.
Asandi Conner (32:49)
Yeah, watched one years and years ago, I watched something and I decided I could build a patio and I did and it's okay. It's pretty decent. I'm redoing it now because I realized I didn't really know what I was doing. I was like, I can do that. I can dig some dirt or whatever. But really thinking about, I mentioned that because outside has become a sacred space for me at my house. But even walking around in my neighborhood, I am no, I notice
Melissa Halpin (32:55)
is in.
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Asandi Conner (33:17)
the opportunity to disconnect and notice things and reconnect with just where I am, like the trees and the leaves that are blowing, but that your space really needs to be reflective of who you are. And that doesn't mean, sometimes people think, well, I gotta spend a lot of money. That's not what that means. It might mean that you may have your favorite, in my house, one of the things that I tell people if I'm gonna work with them in interior design,
Melissa Halpin (33:37)
No.
Asandi Conner (33:45)
your favorite color should be in every room. And I think it can be very, nobody else might know, may not even know it's there, but my favorite, exactly. So in my house, you'll see something yellow in every room. There's something yellow, and it may just be a candle, it could be a pillow, it could be a picture frame, it may even just be flowers. ⁓ But whatever the thing is for you that makes you feel
Melissa Halpin (33:48)
Mm.
It'd be a token, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (34:13)
that is reflective of who you are, brings you joy and that you treasure, you can start there in terms of making the space sacred. Whatever that, and comfortable. And comfortable just means it's comfortable. It could mean just pillows on the floor. It could mean a nice warm throw or blanket. Whatever is going to make you feel comfortable and where you feel like you can be.
Melissa Halpin (34:17)
Yeah.
Right.
Mm. I think that you achieved that. I really do. Yeah. Our mutual friend, Burhenda Williams, is the one who encouraged me to go to the event. And at that time, she had just lost her mother. And so she was really grieving. And my daughter and I had just gone through a really difficult time with my daughter's mental health. And she was home from school. And so I said, Burhenda, I'm in no shape.
Asandi Conner (34:42)
Thank you.
Yes.
Melissa Halpin (35:03)
And she basically had mirrored back to me like, do you think I'm in any shape? She's like, you don't need to worry about it with the Sandi, right? ⁓ And so I went kind of reluctantly because it was like my life felt so chaotic, just to drive to the country felt like, even if we drove there and decided not to go, like we just had to get out, right? And I do think that,
Asandi Conner (35:11)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Halpin (35:28)
It's that sort of bearing witness that we talked about at the top of this conversation and seeing one another, but also doing it with a very light touch, like an allowance or an acceptance or an unfolding. So yeah, I think you have that gift.
Asandi Conner (35:33)
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you very much. it's creating the space, but also holding the space, holding the space and allowing the space to be, because I had a very detailed agenda for that day, but also just allowing the space to be and respecting what you all were creating and needed it to be and allowing that becoming to happen is also was important. Like I am holding the space. don't own the space. The space is for y'all.
Melissa Halpin (35:49)
holding the space.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
There was no pushing or pressure on the space that you created. And it really made me feel like, I want to be friends with her forever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really, I really walked away like, safety. Yeah. Yeah.
Asandi Conner (36:22)
And we are and will be, absolutely. Yeah, we are and will be.
Yes, that makes me
feel really good. I'm glad you got it. It worked. It worked. It worked.
Melissa Halpin (36:36)
Yeah, yeah. And
so why is it so, enough about me, I guess. Why is it important that women-led organizations learn through this kind of spacekeeping, space making?
Asandi Conner (36:50)
Yeah, what I found is that my story of what I was trying to emulate as a leader was not uncommon. And then I also learned, I learned from my own leadership failures that before that light bulb moment that I was perpetuating harm on other women on my team unknowingly because I wasn't leading like a Sandy.
I was leading in a way that I was not necessarily people centered. just, and that just, wasn't true to who I was. And I was hearing stories from other women leaders about challenges that they were experiencing, feeling this pressure, whether perceived or real, about how to show up. Like how to show up.
Melissa Halpin (37:17)
Right.
Right. Yeah.
Asandi Conner (37:41)
at the time I know I had started reading, I think, Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In. so there, so there were different, I think there were messages that I was receiving both from people in my professional life, but also just externally about how I needed to show up. And it was exhausting.
Melissa Halpin (37:49)
I think we all were told we had to read it.
Asandi Conner (38:06)
It was so exhausting and just not, I was like, this, can't sustain, I can't sustain this.
Melissa Halpin (38:06)
Yes. Yes.
No, I
am with you. I will say this about Lean In. It's a powerful message that resonated with a lot of women. But if I were going to write a book, it would be Lean Out.
Asandi Conner (38:21)
Yeah, I get that, I get that.
Melissa Halpin (38:21)
Look, find yourself
away from the conference table or the boardroom first. Yes.
Asandi Conner (38:28)
Yes, and that is in part
of the work that I do with my clients is very kind of similar to deal. Who are you? Who do you aspire to be as a leader? What are the values that you hold? And how is that showing up in your leadership?
Melissa Halpin (38:39)
Yeah.
Right.
Right, because that just gets trampled when you're constantly pressured to like mirror what the other guys are doing.
Asandi Conner (38:56)
Yes, yes.
And we all have, you know, I was, I feel comfortable and confident saying we all have had experiences where we've had supervisors that we didn't love. So we know what that looks and feels like. And we get to choose to lead in a different way and to lead in a way that feels good. That makes us feel excited. That makes our team feel inspired. So why, why choose to do something else?
Melissa Halpin (39:06)
Right.
Right.
Right?
Yeah.
Asandi Conner (39:26)
And the other party is that is about like you are the only Melissa you are only you I'm the only a sandy and I often tell women or like friends I don't Intend to leave this world exhausted, but I do intend to leave this world empty. I want to give do Love play. I want to I want to leave it all here
Melissa Halpin (39:34)
Right. Right.
Right.
Asandi Conner (39:52)
And for
me, that awesome means for how I work and how I lead and how I choose to be of service. So how I lead my team, how I show up as a volunteer, and I'm mindful that unknowingly or not, somebody's probably watching or observing. And so that role model part is really important. And for me, it's been tied to legacy for about a decade. I think about that.
Melissa Halpin (40:10)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Well, let's talk about your legacy. You're balancing being an advocate, an entrepreneur. You're still trying to hold space for joy and family and love and racial justice. These are a lot of big things. A lot of big things. What does legacy look like in terms of all these categories you're trying to balance?
Asandi Conner (40:35)
Yes. Yeah. They are.
Yeah,
it's, it's, it's this, I love this question because it's, I think about legacy often, but I think about it in different buckets. So I think about the legacy that I'm building and leaving with Dio and I feel really good about that. I'm unclear, like I know what the aspirational legacy is with Say It Right. And I envision
Melissa Halpin (40:58)
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (41:06)
a metropolitan Detroit, a region, a country, a world of liberated women. Women who are unafraid and have the courage to use their voice, whether it is for themselves, it is at work, it is in their families, or it's for their communities. That they are speaking up and speaking out and shining brightly, whatever that means for them. And so that...
Melissa Halpin (41:29)
Yeah. Me too.
Asandi Conner (41:31)
Yeah, that voice liberation is really, that's, when I think about Say It Right, that part of the legacy is really important. I don't want, and I see that for women because we are role modeling for folks like your daughter, folks like my daughter, and those generations that are younger and yet to come. And so I want them to be emboldened to use their voice and be thoughtful.
Melissa Halpin (41:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mmm, me too.
Asandi Conner (41:58)
So from
Melissa Halpin (41:58)
And
I really like your idea of co-liberation. We can't do this alone. And your liberation can't be at the cost of someone else's.
Asandi Conner (42:05)
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not, because that's not liberation. That is not. I'm not going to sacrifice, like to sacrifice someone else for my liberation. That is not the intention as I think about co-liberation. That does not work.
Melissa Halpin (42:11)
No, that is not liberation.
But that's so often the narrative, right? Some person or some group or some community or culture has to lose in order for the other to be liberated.
Asandi Conner (42:28)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, you see and you hear, you hear that rhetoric is quite prominent right now. Like if I give up or I sacrifice, then what does that mean for me? But that also speaks to, you know, bigger challenges that we have around mindset and scarcity and yeah, that we choose to accept that are also false.
Melissa Halpin (42:43)
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, you have been an inspiration to me just as a person, just the way that you're showing up in your own space, in the spaces that you're creating. And I hope people can feel that through the podcast and they certainly can find you. Do you want to tell them where they can find you if they want to attend an event or find you online?
Asandi Conner (43:02)
Thank you.
Yes,
yes. Well, one place you can find me is I do hang out in the Kindling Project Community Facebook group. So I hang out there. You can find me there. also have I'm on Facebook. I am on LinkedIn. I am on Instagram. All at Say It Right. Detroit. So you can find me Say It Right Detroit dot com is the website and then at Say It Right.
Melissa Halpin (43:21)
I know you do and I love it.
Mm-hmm.
Asandi Conner (43:39)
Detroit WRITE on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
Melissa Halpin (43:45)
I will put all of that in our show notes and Asandi, this has been like the quickest hour. You have to come back and talk to me some more.
Asandi Conner (43:53)
That would be great. And may I add, if folks are interested in learning more about DEO, the Detroit Equity Action Lab, they can also search for the Detroit Equity Action Lab, both on Facebook, we're on LinkedIn as well, and we also have a website.
Melissa Halpin (44:08)
Thank you so much for holding space with us today and for the space you create in the world every day. Your work, your words, your way, they remind us that leadership doesn't require volume, it requires truth.
Asandi Conner (44:20)
Thank you, my absolute pleasure.
Melissa Halpin (44:22)
Thanks my friend. Until next time.